I've not watched it yet, but am just dropping by to express my admiration for the combined power of that gif + icon.

i second this

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Enjoyed the second half a lot more than the first. I guess, all in all, I liked it. But not sure if it's because the episode is actually decent or because I'm a bit sentimental over Gotham ending next week. I'm not ready. ;______;


My three BIG complaints:

- Disappointing that they teased us with the cool, dramatic 5x01 opening only to do absolutely nothing with it because, clearly, it made no sense regarding the current canon developments. It wasn't even dark in the actual 5x11 fight scene. :/

- Nyssa was a flat villain and her ~motivation of getting revenge on Bruce all along was really weak. No idea why she had to survive. It added nothing to my overall enjoyment of the episode.

- There's absolutely no good reason for leaving Edward the Dog in the submarine and not showing Oswald heartbroken over that loss.


Stuff I liked:

- Obviously, the fact that Babs survived. I'm generally pretty pleased with how TPTB resolved everything. Not saying it made a lot of sense, but minus the BIG Nyssa complaint, it was a solid episode with some very nice character moments (esp. Bruce/Selina, Bruce&Alfred, Lee&Babs, Oswald&Ed). I'm also glad that they didn't try to shove Jim/Lee down our throats too much.

Not particularly mad re: Bruce/Selina because we all knew it was coming, right? Granted, leaving a letter with Harper is probably the most impersonal goodbye he could think of. But since when do Gotham's characters have interpersonal skills? Plus, Bruce had probably the best least terrible character arc this season so I feel we can forgive him this one lapse into noble idiocy.

- Babs selling Oswald and Ed out to Nyssa, haha!

- Every interaction Babs had with the baby, Jim, and Lee. Jim saying "our baby". I can also live with the baby name, knowing that she's also named after Lee. Still crying a silent tear for that missed "Tabitha" chance, though.

- Oswald's Go with the man in green made me laugh.

- I wasn't prepared for that short Jim/Oswald scene -- in a good way. However, I would've preferred if it had laid the ground for Oswald's continued delusions of grandeur at the end because that bit struck me as a little forced (If they had let me run this city the way I wanted to, it would not be in ruins now.), particularly with him still showing up to watch Jim being made Commissioner at the end.

- I liked that Lee still has an acknowledged connection to the Narrows: Then that's where I'm needed. Swoon!

- We finally know how they managed to power that spotlight! Lucius, you absolute genius. He's the hero we don't deserve -- with way too little screentime.

- Glad that Nyssa helpfully pointed out that Jim was an absolute fool for coming alone to save Babs. That said, for me, this was probably the most satisfying fight in this episode. I just love when people wipe the floor with Jim. (Sorry not sorry!) Not to mention how cool it was that Babs broke that one guy's neck with her thighs.

- I liked Bane here and the way Bruce and Selina managed to bring him down with the bats. Yes, it was predictable, but the execution was fine as far as I'm concerned.

- I loved the Oswald/Ed hug, particularly if we remember how a similar scene between Ed and Lee played out in the s4 finale. Subtext accepted. Not gonna lie, though, at first I totally expected them to swear a blood oath or something and thought that's why Oswald got his knife out.

- Lee looked absolutely stunning at the end. This was also the best her hair has looked all season (so far).


Smaller complaints:

- Disappointed that there wasn't a follow-up re: Jim's "physical improvements" in 5x10. Especially strange to include that and shortly afterwards have him lose that fight against Nyssa. Was that power-up really necessary?

- #ProtectAlfredSquad2019. Not nearly enough Alfred.

- Feeling ambivalent about the Jim/Lee exchange re: her not listening to him. It's obviously meant to be cute, but for me, it only emphasized why I cannot see their relationship lasting after the honeymoon period is over. Jim simply still doesn't seem to see Lee for the capable woman she is and, furthermore, he is a fucking hypocrite for constantly throwing himself into the nearest danger and then expecting her just to wait it out on the back-bench. Or am I being too harsh here?

- Not a fan of Ed being just... gone? That line about [s]hy, awkward pathetic Ed also has unfortunate implications if we remember that, in the beginning, he used to be heavily coded as autistic.

- I'm mad that Nyssa is such a waste of a perfectly Hot Evil Lady. Well, I guess, at least Jim didn't sleep with her, right? Small mercies.


Headscratchers:

- Since when are there bunkers beneath the GCPD? Genuine question.

- Why did Nyssa go to City Hall? Did they have to recycle sets? (Technically, the Sirens and City Hall should be pretty far apart if we believe the in-show maps.)

- Why would Oswald even wear glasses if he doesn't absolutely need them to see?

- Why did Oswald not immediately go to Lee with his injury?

- What was that moment after Lee says, Well, now you have another little one to look after and Jim looks at the people in the room? There's a sound that makes it seem as if it were somehow relevant, but I have no idea why. (My first instinct was to check for Ra's in the background somewhere.)

- Does this mean Jeremiah is still "brain-dead" in the hospital?


Line of the Week:

BRUCE: We need to make it a bomb again.

That's why I love this show. Lee and Lucius's reaction was priceless! :D

Edited 2019-04-19 09:28 pm (UTC)

"Disappointing that they teased us with the cool, dramatic 5x01 opening"
Same. But also, glad we got that 5x1 opening even if it was a bit of a glamourisation of the actual facts. Like, they didn't even all come from the same locations? In fact, when was Harvey ever even at the bar? Bit dumb, but I'm still forgiving it because that opener was stunning.

"There's absolutely no good reason for leaving Edward the Dog in the submarine and not showing Oswald heartbroken over that loss."
This did my head in possibly more than anything in this episode - especially when they had him make such a fuss over initially leaving Ed the Dog behind! You'd think he'd be immediately WHERE IS MY DOG once the war was over.

I'm proper stoked and also really surprised that Babs survived. In fact, she was possibly my favourite part of of this episode. I loved that she named the baby after herself (the 'Lee' part was nice too, but mainly I'm all about the narcissism :p) I loved her and Lee's little bonding moment, too.

Honestly, I thought Bruce chipping off and just leaving Selina a letter was totally on-brand, given his massive guilt/martyr complex etc. I felt more sorry for Alfred tbh, but the 'father' speech was cute-as. Also can I say for the record that I will not miss Bruce's heinous roll-neck collection one bit.

Other random bits I loved: Ed's initial 'fuck Gotham' stance (yes, Ed. Yes.) Oswald's helpless devotion to Gotham, and his wonderful little speech to Jim on the subject. Ed stepping in after and being like, yeah, whatever, me too <3
(That whole scene, and the four of them stepping out to the barricades, gave me such a Forlorn Hope boner that I may never recover!)
Then Ed's ultimate 'I told you so' and how he was so right about Oswald following his heart never getting him anywhere.
And don't even get me started on how utterly brilliant and precious that Ed and Oswald scene was, with neither of them able to stab the other, but both of them initially planning to. Beautiful. Also, good way to have both of them fight alongside the GCPD in the final battle, but then be set up neatly as future supervillains. I think these two are my other favourite aspect of this episode. Sidenote: I also totally thought Oswald was proposing a blood pact at first.

I also really liked how they finally won the war - it was perhaps a tad anticlimactic to have Bane's soldiers just turn on him, but it was also one of the most believable bits of the whole thing for me. Like, of course no way would people fire on a load of unarmed civilians when Wade wasn't even alive any more. I did like that bit.

"Lucius, you absolute genius. He's the hero we don't deserve with too little screentime."
SO MUCH THIS.

Also love how they had that Lee and Lucius moment of 'can't believe we're letting these actual children go out and detonate that bomb'.

Babs breaking a dude's neck with her thighs and generally absolutely kicking arse was SO satisfying, also jfc she'd literally just given birth, she's hard as nails.

Like, yeah, we all knew the cloud of bats was coming, but it was still excellent and goth af. I sort of don't get why it took Bane down so totally (I mean, it would be severely inconveniencing, but surely not actually damaging to him? Disorienting maybe? I guess that was enough to buy time. I'm also making believe no CGI bats were harmed.)

"Disappointed that there wasn't a follow-up re: Jim's "physical improvements" in 5x10."
That just plain confused me in the fight with Nyssa. I was like, isn't he super powered now? Wait, is she just SUPER super powered? Or is he bluffing? Wait, he's got her hand-cuffs, he's bluffing... oh... he's not bluffing? I'm just confused, did it wear off..? I guess we'll never know.

Agreed re not enough Alfred. Also, I felt super bad for Alfred.

Also, not enough Harvey AT ALL. Although he did look SUPER tasty in the awards ceremony. And that little exchange at the end with Jim was adorable.

"Feeling ambivalent about the Jim/Lee exchange re: her not listening to him. It's obviously meant to be cute, but for me, it only emphasizes why I cannot see their relationship lasting after the honeymoon period is over."
Same. I kinda felt it just made him come off as a total arsehole again. Also, I am hugely not a baby person, but even to me Jim looked super uncomfortable holding a baby, lol.

"Why did Nyssa go to City Hall? Did they have to recycle sets?"
I'm going with, yes.

"Why would Oswald even wear glasses if he doesn't absolutely need them to see?"
The red ones, because they're hella stylish. The ones at the end - well, I guess his vision is messed up now? I'm kinda bummed he got injured. Although Ed helping him through it was nice.

"What was that moment after Lee says, Well, now you have another little one to look after and Jim looks at the people in the room? There's a sound that makes it seem as if it were somehow relevant, but I have no idea why."
THIS!!! I'm so glad you said that, I honestly thought it was just me being unobservant again. I've revisited that scene and frame-by-frame paused it and I still can't spot anything?

"Does this mean Jeremiah is still "brain-dead" in the hospital?"
I would imagine so.

I'm also gonna add my pleased-ness that Harper and Alvarez got medals too.

Anyway, in general, I enjoyed this episode and all the threads tied up in a much more satisfying way than I was fearing.

Bit dumb, but I'm still forgiving it because that opener was stunning.

Agreed. I was just so pumped to see Oswald having followers that powder his face, I guess. :(

You'd think he'd be immediately WHERE IS MY DOG once the war was over.

It would have been the only acceptable reason for killing Ed, tbh.

And don't even get me started on how utterly brilliant and precious that Ed and Oswald scene was, with neither of them able to stab the other, but both of them initially planning to.

I'm currently rethinking that scene and chewing on some ambivalent feelings about it. Mainly why they first let Oswald save Ed only to later stab him in the back again? Same with Ed. Technically, he has absolutely no reason to kill Oswald, even if we consider that those two are not the most mentally stable individuals in Gotham.

Sidenote: I also totally thought Oswald was proposing a blood pact at first.

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one!

Like, of course no way would people fire on a load of unarmed civilians when Wade wasn't even alive any more. I did like that bit.

After Jim's baby appeal in the last episode, I almost expected some soldier to say that he wouldn't shoot a baby, lol.

I'm just confused, did it wear off..? I guess we'll never know.

Same. I'll just headcanon that he has... lasting improvements. *suggestively wiggling eyebrows*

Also, not enough Harvey AT ALL.

Yep. What do you think, will we get that much-needed Jim/Harv hug anytime soon?

Also, I am hugely not a baby person, but even to me Jim looked super uncomfortable holding a baby, lol.

Pretty sure he prefers his idea of it more than the real thing. You know... like with Lee.

The red ones, because they're hella stylish.

I only asked that question because I wrongly assumed the glasses played a part in this injury. That's why I later deleted the question from my post... :x Correction: That's why I wanted to edit my post, but you replied before I could finish.

I've revisited that scene and frame-by-frame paused it and I still can't spot anything?

Me too. Strange moment.

I'm also gonna add my pleased-ness that Harper and Alvarez got medals too.

Agreed!

Anyway, in general, I enjoyed this episode and all the threads tied up in a much more satisfying way than I was fearing.

Me too. I'm actually surprised how much I liked it.


Edited 2019-04-19 10:43 pm (UTC)

Ohhhh the face powdering was so good... I'd forgotten that bit... ah I wish it was in the latest ep.

"It would have been the only acceptable reason for killing Ed, tbh."
As in, for thinking of killing Ed when he pulls the knife on him, because Ed was responsible for Ed-the-Dog being left behind? (I refuse to believe that Ed-the-Dog is anything but healthy an happy still, even if he's Nyssa's dog now :(((((( )

"I'm currently rethinking that scene and chewing on some ambivalent feelings about it. Mainly why they first let Oswald save Ed only to later stab him in the back again? Same with Ed. Technically, he has absolutely no reason to kill Oswald, even if we consider that those two are not the most mentally stable individuals in Gotham."
I mean, you're totally right, of course. I think though at this stage I'm just too delighted by the dynamic to put too much logical thought into it. Also, I'm coming from a background of Crowley and Rowena in SPN which is totally different (they're mother and son) but also similar in the "I hate you but I also love you and I will totally kill you one day but I will also defend you to the death if anyone but me tries to kill you".

"After Jim's baby appeal in the last episode, I almost expected some soldier to say that he wouldn't shoot a baby, lol."
That would have been a nice touch, tbh.

"Same. I'll just headcanon that he has... lasting improvements. *suggestively wiggling eyebrows*"
HAHAHAHA. It's canon.

"will we get that much-needed Jim/Harv hug anytime soon?"
No. I believe we won't. (Fuck those writers!!!)

"Pretty sure he prefers his idea of it more than the real thing. You know... like with Lee."
SO much this.

"I only asked that question because I wrongly assumed the glasses played a part in this injury. That's why I later deleted the question from my post... :x Correction: That's why I wanted to edit my post, but you replied before I could finish."
Ah, sorry for jumping in so quick! Also, I know what you mean re the glasses -I also kinda thought it was they broke in his face? I mean, I'm sure even with it being schrapnel, they didn't help matters. And, saying that, it was kinda a bit irresponsible for him to wear unnecessary glasses in that situation, but I guess it was all a bit spur of the moment and he wasn't thinking it through (and also they totally complemented his face powder :p)

Hrmmmm anxiously anticipating next week's finale now...

the scene where jim looks at the people in the room was a very poorly executed moment of bruce disappearing on him! if bruce wasn't already heading through the crowd to that door it may have been more effective, lol.

Totally missed that! It seemed like a reasonable amount of time for Bruce to leave the room, so I didn't even think that Jim would still expect to see him in the crowd.

Ahhhhh! Thank you for clearing that up... I was so confused! (But yeah, poorly executed indeed :\)