Lee reappeared in 4x05, so I'm kind of hoping she'll also be back for the fifth episode of this season. :)

Just watched. The feels! I need a rewatch before I formulate anything intelligent but for now, flailing.

The start felt a bit abrupt/rushed to me, but at least it's pacy. I'm getting that Jim WAS unprepared, but just rolled with it when the army pitched up and ruined that really nice stained glass?

It was the government all along - Feurioo called it.

I have SO MANY Harvey feels this episode.

I hated New Guy on sight. Stupid New Guy with his stupid Ryker beard. Like, idk if the intense homoeroticism between him and Jim was intentional, but it made me want to slap Jim even more than him getting it on with Barbara last ep did (no mention of that this ep). From the second they had that shot with Jim and New Guy (yeah, I can't be bothered learning his name) and Harvey walking behind them ugh I was irate on Harvey's behalf. Then when he actually SAID 'I'm a street cop, don't put me on desk work' and Jim still shelved him... then gave him that pity job the next time, idk, I am just feeling very protective of Harv rn. And then they dropped that Bruce and Harvey moment on us and god, my heart. It was all a lot. And Harvey keeping his head together by doing paper work OUCH.

Idk there really was SO much gay between Jim and New Guy right? And Harvey really DID look a bit nonplussed by the whole thing? I don't normally even spot stuff like that in shows, but Gotham seems to be getting increasingly blatant? The Ed and Oswald was off the scale in this one too.

I actually really liked Ed in this one. Ed is really growing on me. I had some laugh out loud moments in this ep, one being "I'm not a murderer... except Kringle. And officer Docherty..."
Also, his escape from the Stereotyped Rednecks (why are all the Gotham citizens suddenly 80s Horror Movie Rednecks, or 1930s Working Class People From Yorkshire all of a sudden?!) was pretty excellent too, and DAMN RIGHT they were gonna execute him for killing their dog.

Speaking of, YASS DOGWARD. I also laughed out loud at how tiny Penguin looked lugging that mountain of bulldog around <3

Strange is as spectacular a dick as ever.

Jim really does do a lot of flying tackles/diving bodily into stuff.

Living for Selina telling Bruce where to go. Also for Selina's victory partying. Idec if she's kinda the worst now, I love it every time she tells Bruce he can't dictate to her who she is. Bonus love for Alfred telling Bruce as much, too.

Penguin's fingerless bondage mittens.

I watched Suicide Squad the other day to try and see what all the fuss about Harley is and idk it was fun and I hated less than expected but I honestly gotta say, I kinda like Gotham Joker and Harley now? They're sorta the mid ground between oldskool Batman and the new 'edgy' stuff. Like, dark, but still really camp and I'm finding them kinda cute? Jeremiah's Frank N' Furter is really showing a lot.

That ending. This season is really delivering.

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of rn.

tl;dr Harvey needs a cuddle and I am ready and willing to provide it.

Okay, let's fuck decorum, Eduardo brought the triple gay and it was glorious. And I'm saying that as someone who hates the actor with a passion. But the minute he got on screen and Jim recognized him, I knew: Welp, here's yet another dude you will mercilessly ship Jim with. And, goddamn, Jim Gordon, why do you have to be such a gigantic bi mess?

"Ryker beard" made me fucking lol. Gotta have to call this dude Ryker now, even though I love Jonathan Frakes for hosting Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction. I used to be obsessed with that show.

ANYWAY. They're really going all out with it this season. #Blessed. Plus, there was this nice Jim ass shot. And an Ed crotch shot. And several pretty Oswald face close-ups! This episode really delivered (aside from, you know, finally giving me my fave, Lee).

You have several other great points, but I'm still sorting out my thoughts, I guess. Now I gotta try to write my own reaction comment...

It was glorious, but also NOBODY PUTS HARVEY IN THE CORNER can you feel how mad I am from way over there?!! Like, Harvey looked so wtf at the whole turn of events and I am SO MAD AT JIM OMG.

I just hate that type of beard haha. And New Guy is so bloody smug, with his stupid army skills and his stupid waistline. Stupid New Guy. I'm glad he's already gone and shat on Jim's feelings (it was bound to happen: Jim Gordon isn't allowed nice things) so that I don't have to watch them making Stoic Manly Hearteyes at each other for another episode while Harvey does the paperwork >:(

I missed those shots, lol, but I agree that this ep delivered. I was loving the Ed and Os reunion and their general hatelove.

I am crossing everything for you for Lee next ep. She's in the promo shots, so she has to turn up eventually?!

I mean, this episode pretty much confirmed that Jim is currently slutting it up with practically everyone. I kind of love it? (Sorry?) But, hey, I also watched that Babs/Ed scene and thought they were hot together. (Sorry!) Pretty sure Jim will get all the Harv love in one of the future episodes. There has to be some fallout for all the shit that happened in this ep, right?

As a declared fan of beards, this show is not good at them. Look at the hideous, dead pet squirrel they had Jim wear in that Bruce dream sequence last season. Look at Strange. Look at Ryker. No me gusta, lads! Harv is the reigning champion of beards. (Jervis' beard also looks okay, I guess.)

I usually tell myself that I am not shameless enough to make ass shot gifs. Or at least I wasn't for s4 because I remember at least one scene in which I was definitely thinking about it. Same with boob window gifs. But I never made them.

Thank you! Fingers crossed for Lee. She'll probably be Walker's secret weapon or some shit. >:(

Yes. And, yes. I mean, I don't really hate Jim being a total ho, but I am distraught at Harvey being upset. He BEST get some love soon.
Hahaha I need to rewatch soon, so I'll pay more attention to the Babs and Ed scene.

Same re beards. I love a good beard, and this show has Harvey and that is it imo. (I mean, same re Jervis's isn't terrible either but it's also not great. It's meh. And I don't like him, haha.) I'm very here for Lucius's tache, though.

You make those ass shot gifs if you want to! If they didn't want it giffing they wouldn't have included the shot ;p

Yeahhhh I'm starting to get that feeling about Lee tbh... she's gonna end up some Big Bad...

Yeah, okay, not sure Harv will get the love he deserves anytime soon. But: Who's going to be there for Jim when he gets to complain about Ryker? :|

I think the appeal of the Babs/Ed scene was mainly the combination of Babs with a knife to his throat and Ed on his knees. Also: The freaking height difference, even with him on his knees! *bites fist* What can I say? Ever since that sub!Ed fic I read last year convinced me that Ed is a freak in bed, I'm here for him. That's also the main reason why I'm still mourning our canon neighborhood-kinkster Penn.

I am beyond sorry I forgot Lucius. :((

Here's the ass gif:



At this point, I'm ready to take Big Bad Lee. I don't care, it's probably going to be annoying as fuck, but I miss her presence on my TV screen and I'd still love to get some good character moments for her this season.

Harvey. Harvey is going to be there -__-

Well, yes. Double the height but still at the disadvantage is quite affecting, I agree.

LOL Ok the main thing the ass gif is making me think is, Jim I am sorry I ever criticised your hot lava skills because that jump looks way further and more awkward in that gif than I remember it being in the show. Kudos. That was a decent jump.

I mean, Lee is in the promo pics, so she HAS to come back eventually. And it feels like maybe they're working up to A Big Thing. I have hope for you.

He didn't jump all the way. That's how he did it:



(Edit: I realize, in the ass gif, it might have looked as if it's one shot. It's actually two shots, one of Jim standing on the chair and one of Jim after the first jump.)

Thank God for conveniently placed furniture. ;)

I caved and looked up the episode in which Lee's going to reappear for my own peace of mind. One reason less to complain, yay! :))

Edited 2019-02-10 03:44 pm (UTC)

OH ok - I retract my compliment then, his hot lava skills are indeed weak :p (Nah, actually, that second jump's still reasonably impressive...)

I mean... it's pressure activated? So... wouldn't the impact of him landing on the table still... y'know... ah, nevermind! *suspending disbelief* I guess maybe the table definitely wasn't standing on anything that could activate anything.

I am glad your Lee fears have been eased :) I'm tempted to look up if Donal is listed as acting in every episode, however I'm too worried about spoilers and I'm already trying to forget the damn episode titles I've read!

The problem with looking at cast lists is that sites like IMDB are notoriously unreliable. I remember a fave of mine being automatically listed in every episode because he was a series regular. Only after the actual episode had aired, they added important details like "credit only" etc.

Like, idk if the intense homoeroticism between him and Jim was intentional, but it made me want to slap Jim even more than him getting it on with Barbara last ep did (no mention of that this ep). From the second they had that shot with Jim and New Guy (yeah, I can't be bothered learning his name) and Harvey walking behind them ugh I was irate on Harvey's behalf.

I have no idea what they really intended to do with Ryker. Maybe we'll learn more about his backstory with Jim in future episodes? Not that I really care about him as a character, but if he gives us something interesting about Jim's past fic writers can work with -- apart from the "experiments in the army" cliché -- then I'm here for it. At the very least, he didn't cause too much of a rift in the Gordlock bromance.

I actually really liked Ed in this one. Ed is really growing on me.

Me too. I just hope he'll get some screentime to deal with that trauma and everything won't just suddenly be fine once he cuts his hair. Then again, it's Gotham. The best we can probably hope for is to see Ed and Oswald somehow reunited as BFFs at the end of the day.

I also laughed out loud at how tiny Penguin looked lugging that mountain of bulldog around <3

Technically he shouldn't be able to do that with his knee injury... But, damn, that was cute. But it wouldn't even half as cute without the little kissies. I'm frankly baffled that there isn't more doggo fic. And I'm saying that as a cat person!

Idec if she's kinda the worst now, I love it every time she tells Bruce he can't dictate to her who she is.

I know I'm probably supposed to be worried about her, but I kind of get it? And I would gladly watch an entire show about Selina doing her own thing and not playing second fiddle to Bruce. Same with Alfred. Too bad the new Alfred-centered show doesn't star SP. A waste of a perfectly fine actor. (That said, if you're yearning for some DC slash fic, Alfred/Thomas Wayne seems like a safe bet.)

tl;dr Harvey needs a cuddle and I am ready and willing to provide it.

You cuddle Harv and I cuddle garbage boi Jim?

Yeah, idek what the point was either, except to kick Jim again - even your longtime, oldskool, ex-boyf- I mean, ex-colleagues, are gonna betray you, Jim.

"At the very least, he didn't cause too much of a rift in the Gordlock bromance."
Well, not with his Insta-Betrayal he didn't. Harvey's little shellshocked wtf face through the whole episode when he kept getting benched was breaking my heart though.

...not gonna lie, everything will be fine with me once he cuts his hair (OK lol I will stop complaining about the wig now. Maybe.) I have quiet hope for Ed and Os BFFs afer seeing the opening scene.

"Technically he shouldn't be able to do that with his knee injury"
Again, very good point, although maybe he's just reeeeeeeeally motivated and determined for doggy cuddles? *__* (Os and his dog is everything, truly)

Agreed on Selina and Alfred shows. I'll probably watch Pennyworth, or at least give it a go... not keen on not having SP in it either, although I guess it does make sense if it's about his much younger days - however excellent SP is, he's not gonna play a 20-something. That said, I'm more interested in Alfred ten years ago (which he totally could play) than teen!heartthrob!Alfred (which is undoubtedly what they're angling for).

"You cuddle Harv and I cuddle garbage boi Jim?"
I feel that this is an excellent plan.

It seems everywhere he goes, Jim Gordon always leaves bitter exes behind. <3

I wonder when Ed will finally lose the hair. I'd expected him to do something about it once the chip was out of his brain. Then again, these last few episodes were pretty fast-paced. Maybe once things calm down a bit. Re: Os and Ed being BFFs. I fucking need another scene with Ed the Dog and Ed the Human bonding. Just imagine the cute!

I don't think I'll be watching Pennyworth. So far, it just doesn't strike me as something I'm interested in. Idk. Just not interested in pretty 20-somethings. I'm kind of hoping that Sean will appear in the last season of Elementary, but it's probably not going to happen.

I'm absolutely here for The Long Awaited Haircut and more dog bonding. I feel confident this is going to happen.

Agreed on not being much interested in pretty 20-somethings. I'll probably give it a go all the same, see if it's any good.

I feel conflicted. My gut reaction to this episode, as a Gotham fan, is WOOOHOOO!, but my mystery-loving brain is caught up in a WTF?! REEEAALLLY? loop due to how clumsily they decided to reveal Walker's part in Ed's crimes. That was... very anticlimactic.

I had hoped to see more of her before we'd get down to that. Also, couldn't the writers have told us earlier that she's a part of the government as well? The way Jim's radio conversations were set up, it sounded more as if she was an independent party promising Jim help since the government was blocking him at every turn. I also don't think that it's particularly ideal that we'd never even heard her name before this episode.


Things I liked:

- THE BI JUMPED OUT! No idea why they thought they needed to introduce one of Jim's army buddies in the show's last season, but I'm not suddenly going to complain about Jim eye-fucking a random guy. If the writers thought the ~inevitable betrayal would work better because they added a hint of a backstory here, I have bad news for them. That said, I expected way worse from the SW casting. Yes, the Ryker beard is terrible, but hey, at least Sgt. Angel Vallelunga is a real cutie.

- ED. Again, the conflict. I think that the reveal worked overall, and that, even though some of the scenes were random as fuck (electrocution, hello!), they were all part of a wildly entertaining package.

However, I still want to know what that "Penguin was here" graffiti was even supposed to achieve or what happened to Ed's body after Strange doctored with it. Also: Why did Walker attack Haven? Or why did she order Ed to shoot down the chopper? (According to our RPG guy's books, Ed bought two RPGs. Guess that's the official confirmation that he's responsible for the chopper incident.)

- OSWALD. Long sigh. The scene with Ed was SO GOOD. I'm tempted to gif all of his expressions, even though I don't plan to post them anywhere. (Quicker people will already have done so.) I just love RLT's expressive face and it doesn't help that his mannerisms remind me of another (very obscure) actor I'm deeply fond of. Sentimentality and shipping aside, I liked that Oswald was totally out for himself and ready to rat Ed out even after he promised Ed, If you and I are ever at odds again, you will know, without a doubt, that I am your enemy.

- HARV. That little moment with Bruce was unexpected and beautiful. I hate how suspicious it makes me. Good possibility: He'll shine in a future episode. Bad possibility: He's not going to get noticed for his deeds until it's already too late. Realistic possibility: It won't matter. Sorry to be such a downer.

- SELINA. Good that she's no more the suicidal girlfriend and has come into her own. Also nice to see her back at the Sirens, even though I'm still missing a reaction to Tabby's death. That said, it would be great if her plots could be tied to anyone but Bruce in the future. For now, I'm officially over Bruce/Selina.


Other stuff:

- I missed Lucius. After his scene with Ed on the roof in the last episode, I would have loved to see him react to the news of Ed being the culprit. I just generally want more Lucius, to be honest.

- Will Ed stand trial? The general public will still assume that he is guilty. Will they demand a Zsasz "trial" 2.0? (But how can they even get that with Oswald going underground?!)

- Why operate on Ed's brain without shaving his head? Nobody needs the hair.

- Are we back to the Ed/Riddler split? I want to know how the other personality feels after all that's happened.

- I'm just going to assume that Lee is working for the government. If Strange is something of an independent contractor for them, there's no way he didn't sell Lee's "services" as well. Especially because she's always been Jim Gordon's pressure point. Also, I mean, it's no coincidence that Walker sent Ryker.

- There was no reason to even imply Walker's involvement at the end. It would've been enough to mention that she wants Ed taken out because he's a threat to the public. Simply ridiculous to assume that Jim would actually shoot an innocent man for somebody who's betrayed him from the start. It would be different if Walker had actually delivered the help she promised and Jim owed her in some capacity, but like that, it makes no sense to even entertain the notion that Jim would align himself with her.

- Is Jim indirectly responsible for Haven due to reporting to Walker?

- Just going with the assumption that Jim/Babs was a one-time thing. If they suddenly bring it up again in the next episode, I'm going to scream.

- I would be surprised if Ed really kept up his end of the bargain with Babs. But I'd love to see them working together in the future. If she's going to be pregnant soon, she'll need all the intel she can get.

- I liked Jeremiah more last season. That said, I absolutely didn't make the connection that it was Thomas and Martha Wayne at the end of the episode before making this edit one day later. So, yeah, now my liking has increased again because this turn of events is deliciously twisted and I can't wait for Bruce's reaction.

- What's Oswald's plan?

- Almost forgot: I loved seeing Edward the Dog's dog bed! And Oswald carrying and kissing him. (It's also really cute how you can totally see that there must be dog food lying on the ground when Oswald sits Lil' Eddie down.)

Edited 2019-02-03 11:41 am (UTC)

Can only assume it's rushed due to the cutting short of the series? :\

"No idea why they thought they needed to introduce one of Jim's army buddies in the show's last season, but I'm not suddenly going to complain about Jim eye-fucking a random guy."
The eye fucking was real. It was like fanfiction. I'd be delighted if I wasn't so mad at them both for sidelining Harv.

"If the writers thought the ~inevitable betrayal would work better because they added a hint of a backstory here, I have bad news for them."
Yeah, pretty obvious by now that if anyone new shows the remotest favour to Jim, they will end up betraying him.

I feel a bit bad that I laughed A LOT at the DIY electric chair scene. It was pretty horrifying and horribly stereotyping, but "Dogs don't smile!" just had me howling.

"According to our RPG guy's books, Ed bought two RPGs. Guess that's the official confirmation that he's responsible for the chopper incident."
Mmm you'd think so...

"I liked that Oswald was totally out for himself and ready to rat Ed out even after he promised Ed, If you and I are ever at odds again, you will know, without a doubt, that I am your enemy."
This seriously made me like him a lot. Also, their chemistry was off the charts.

I can't stop thinking about that scene with Harvey. Harv going off to quietly do paperwork to try and keep his head together. I have a fuckton of emotions about it. I'm assuming that it'll just go unnoticed (although they did surprise me once before when Lucius led that round of applause for Harv post bomb-disabling). I'm just at the stage where I'm restraining myself from bombarding the writers with PLEASE JUST TELL ME HE SURVIVES I CAN'T FACE LOSING ANOTHER ONE begging messages :\

Agreed re we want more Lucius.

"Why operate on Ed's brain without shaving his head? Nobody needs the hair."
It was super dumb and unrealistic, I agree, but tbf everything about that operation was super dumb and unrealistic so I'm just glad that for ONCE they spared me my number one trauma trigger of non-con hair cutting.

"- I'm just going to assume that Lee is working for the government. If Strange is something of an independent contractor for them, there's no way he didn't sell Lee's "services" as well. Especially because she's always been Jim Gordon's pressure point. Also, I mean, it's no coincidence that Walker sent Ryker. "
Agreed to all of this.

I mean, I really enjoyed how Jim just dived down that disposal chute.

"- Just going with the assumption that Jim/Babs was a one-time thing. If they suddenly bring it up again in the next episode, I'm going to scream."
If they don't, then it was so pointless to include it. I was a bit irritated that it wasn't remotely referenced in this ep tbh seeing as they had it as the ~big finale~ in the prior one. I'm loving every ep so far but it feels like chunks are missing out of the storyline.

I kinda like Jeremiah now. I like him better since he's with Ecco now, for some reason, and I like his Frank n Furter vibe.

Oswald and his doggie are an absolute pure joy.

Can only assume it's rushed due to the cutting short of the series? :\

I mean, I don't want much. Just drop her name once and either say she's with the government or introduce her as Secretary Walker from the start, and it's all fine. However, if she simply isn't intended to be our Big Bad this season, then I'll understand and won't complain in the future.

The eye fucking was real. It was like fanfiction.

Ngl, the first Jim/Ryker fic I see, I'm just going to assume it's been written by one of the show's writers.

I'd be delighted if I wasn't so mad at them both for sidelining Harv.

Jim is just like a young dog chasing a new car. Soon, he'll be back with his tails between his legs and begging for food. And Harv will give in.

It was pretty horrifying and horribly stereotyping, but "Dogs don't smile!" just had me howling.

I liked that bit, even though it genuinely makes me wonder about the number of pets that died at Haven. That said, now I imagine Jim bringing Will a little puppy/kitten to play with in order to cheer him and the other kids up. We could have had it allllll...

Mmm you'd think so...

Sure, the government could have framed Ed, but that would complicate things too much. At this rate, I don't think we ever hear about the chopper again.

Also, their chemistry was off the charts.

Nygmobblepot is canon, IMO.

I can't stop thinking about that scene with Harvey. Harv going off to quietly do paperwork to try and keep his head together. I have a fuckton of emotions about it. I'm assuming that it'll just go unnoticed (although they did surprise me once before when Lucius led that round of applause for Harv post bomb-disabling).

Not sure yet how I feel about that paperwork scene. I hope they included it because it was a superb character moment and not because they have to somehow make up for killing Harvey in a future episode.

I'm just glad that for ONCE they spared me my number one trauma trigger of non-con hair cutting

Pretty sure it will come at some point. :( And if it's just to demonstrate that Ed is the only one who controls what his body does or looks like. I really hope they let him deal with all that trauma. Someone's posted a really good story about it on AO3 but it may be a little bit spoilery for the next episode.

I mean, I really enjoyed how Jim just dived down that disposal chute.

It's where he belongs, our little walking ball of trash. *pats Jim's head*

If they don't, then it was so pointless to include it. I was a bit irritated that it wasn't remotely referenced in this ep tbh seeing as they had it as the ~big finale~ in the prior one.

I assume she's going to be pregnant and we'll have to deal with that. But I don't see why they should be pushing Jim/Babs as a pairing now. Wouldn't really make sense, unless, in the case of her pregnancy, Jim suddenly feels responsible and super protective of Babs. But, god, I hope they don't pull that crap.

I'm loving every ep so far but it feels like chunks are missing out of the storyline.

That's the case for me with regard to Oswald. For one, I always assumed that he thought Strange had failed at bringing Ed back to life. That way, the dog would have made a lot more sense. I also assumed that Tabitha talking about him not leaving city hall in 5x01 was intended to be a subtle reference to him taking his time to properly mourn Ed. Intense grief could have been a reason for his delusional behavior and painting himself as Gotham's best and brightest protector would be explained as overcompensation for not having been able to save Ed in time.

I like his Frank n Furter vibe.

Give him heels and garter belts, and hello nurse!

Edited 2019-02-04 08:18 am (UTC)

"Soon, he'll be back with his tails between his legs and begging for food. And Harv will give in."
Ugh. Truth. If Harv dies because of that arsehole I will be so mad. SO MAD.

The pets thing is depressing. Not saying I care more about animals than people, but I sort of do in this fictional scenario..! I'm assuming the electric chair people had also been at Haven then, and just got out where their dog didn't.

"Not sure yet how I feel about that paperwork scene. I hope they included it because it was a superb character moment and not because they have to somehow make up for killing Harvey in a future episode."
It was apparently DL's fave scene to do, so that sounds ominous too. I'm just a ball of anxiety at the moment because I was sure for once I'd backed the right horse and my fave would FOR ONCE not get killed, but now I'm seriously worried. And it pisses me right off. It was a lovely scene though, I keep thinking about it. The fact that Harvey of all people is driven to do paperwork for a semblance of normality seems to speak more tragic volumes about the situation than anything. And the whole 'little things matter' speech UGH MY HEART. Flashbacks to 'nothing is trivial' in The Crow.

OK I mean, don't get me wrong, Ed NEEDS that hair cutting - I'm beyond done with that terrible wig. But any non-con element would be horrible. I'd very much welcome an Ed self-makeover.

"It's where he belongs, our little walking ball of trash. "
I cannot detect any lie here.

Honestly, your Oswald thoughts are better than canon and would make a lot more sense. I accept this canon.

And Ecco is actually pretty Magenta tbh. "Give him heels and garter belts, and hello nurse!" I'm sure that'll happen somewhere, eventually...

Maybe DL couldn't talk about another scene because that would've been super spoilery? That's the best explanation I can think of. I also don't expect them to kill both Babs and Harv. Right now, I see Babs as more of a goner than Harv. But no idea. Maybe that'll change.

I rarely have lots of Ed feels, but I hope he'll get a nice, hot shower over at Oswald's and then he finally has the fashion intervention he so badly needs.

Re: Hello Nurse. In fic, maybe? That said, I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more Jeremiah/Ecco fic.

Yeah. I feel slightly less anxious about Harvey now that Babs is pregnant, and that is horrible because I don't want EITHER of them to die.