I haven't watched it yet (It's still the afternoon where I am) but I'm so hyped!! The first episode was great so I can't wait what's in store!

Wishing you lots of fun watching the episode! I'll probably watch it sometime later today, but I'm already super excited. :)

A word of warning: I still have my Critical Goggles on from yesterday's rewatch of 5x01 and I didn't enjoy this episode as much as I'd have liked to, mainly because -- Babs's scenes with Jim aside -- Jim's plot seemed like a filler. However, if the writers really end up doing something with the "dark zone" and that little oasis of hope they established at the end, then I will grudgingly accept it.


It's a meh from me, chief. I think I'd like this little monster-of-the-week episode a lot more if I didn't feel that the entire season setup desperately needs more worldbuilding, stat.

One example: Who cares about that save-the-kids plot? Tell me more about the "dark zone" instead. I also have questions about the smoke this Soothsayer dude was talking about.


Yay:

- Babs. She was great and she looked great. I am looking forward to more Jim/Babs moments, and if her revenge on Oswald ends with her death, I will be gutted. Thought ER's performance was haunting.

Also kudos for her lines about Jim: Here he comes, Gotham! Your judge, your jailor, your most hated son. Goosebumps.

- Harv. He had several great lines in this episode and worked well as comic relief. Good to see him and Jim out and about.

- The Ed mystery is starting to intrigue me. For now, I assume that someone controls him while he's "out". This someone intends to set Oswald up in order to eliminate him. I also assume that Strange plays a part in that. I would be over the moon if it's Lee behind the scenes, but I don't think so. Or at least I expect her to be back to her "good girl" routine by now. Then again, it's a bit strange that she hasn't joined Jim yet. Other guesses: Jeremiah. Another yet-unknown villain.

- I liked Ed's hair a little better here.

- Selina is cured without more hospital drama. The last shot wasn't the least bit surprising, but I'm okay with it! Yay for small favors and not more unneeded drama on that front!


Nay:

- Ed pees standing up. I bet the bastard hasn't cleaned once.

- That little "happy ending" with the kids and that random woman thanking Jim. Eye-roll-inducing. Can't wait for them to get killed. I was also thinking that they now have many more mouths to feed and it already looked bad in the last episode. Where are the people rioting that Jim suddenly brings in a bunch of kids when they already don't have enough for themselves? (There are always people like this.)

- Did anyone need "Mother"? Unless they're planning to do more with her, I thought she was a bit unnecessary. (Then again, she had to appear sometime with 4x22 ending as it did.)


WTF?

- The guy on the radio. Why do they have to wait until the Gotham air space is declared safe? What's the hold-up? I just can't believe that it isn't a trap.

- Lucius says that Babs gets all her stuff from her paying customers. You cannot tell me that her customers keep her and the women in her care fed, especially since I don't assume that all women there are able and/or want to entice random men to come to the club. (Surely Babs also houses old/sick/whatever women?)

One twist I would be here for: They eat the men.

- What's the "dark zone"? Why didn't it appear on Jim's map?

- I thought that the tunnel plan was interesting and wouldn't have minded hearing more about it. The number of kids they had working for them seemed ridiculously low, though. It's also weird that they only put kids to work. There must be other vulnerable groups they could have exploited as well?

- Why would the nurse recommend "The Witch" when all Ivy has done, so far, is killing random neighborhood guys?! Unless I'm mistaken, there wasn't even a word about good, "witchy" deeds she's done in the past. Plus, essentially, Ivy told Bruce to leave her alone. If she wants to be left alone, why would she advertise her "services" to people, so that they can blab about her being in the park in the first place? I would've believed it if Ivy had helped some girls and women coming there and only killed the boys and men, but like that, it's just a silly setup.

The main reason why Lee seemed like such a good "Witch" candidate: She actually wants to help people. That said, I'll simply headcanon that the nurse simply wanted Bruce dead.

- Not gonna lie, when Babs referred to Tabs as her "best friend on this earth", my first thought was: Is this some type of "gals being pals" revisionism?

- Will we ever see Selina's reaction to Tabby's death?

- I think Jim should have told Bruce about Jeremiah potentially making a reappearance asap. Especially with Selina still in the hospital.

- More exciting fights, please. I'm slowly getting tired of these stupid, static gunfights. Especially since it would've been a nice twist to see some other weapons make an appearance for once. And, no, an arrow and that cattle prod don't really count. Give me more people with arrows, spears, swords, self-made grenades, improvised weapons. (For example, I'm still a big fan of that table fight Jim and Pyg had in 4x09!)

- I still want to know who shot the chopper down in 5x01. Since they didn't come for it, maybe their intention was to keep the Gotham air space unsafe? But why?


TL;DR:

- Jim's plot: The Jim/Harv stuff was good and Babs was excellent, but I otherwise couldn't care less about the kid-saving mission. They probably included it because Jim's now officially back to being ~heroic etc., but I hope they're going to raise the stakes with the next episode. They should also explain how Jim plans to feed all these new hungry mouths.

- Ed's plot: I liked the Penguin twist, but god, I hope it won't take the next few episodes to unravel all of it. I don't care that much, and Ed on is own is just not that exciting. I hope there'll be an Oswald/Ed reunion soon and, with that, a flashback to what happened with Ed's body post-4x22.

- Bruce's plot: The Ivy setup was extremely weak. I hope they'll need it for a future episode because otherwise, it's silly as hell. Bruce's behavior was also stupid and he's essentially at fault for three innocent young men losing their lives. All to save his girlfriend. But it all worked out in the end and he probably won't worry about it as he did over that boy's death in 4x04. Hurray!


Minor characters with lines:

Male (11): the little boy, cop telling Jim there's a guy on the radio, guy on the radio, the guys Bruce meets at the park (2 talking), main Soothsayer dude, Gabriel, the other Soothsayer guy, guy in Ed's tub, "Mother"'s little boy, the doctor

Female (3): "Mother", female gang leader, random woman thanking Jim at the end

Edited 2019-01-12 12:27 am (UTC)

"Also kudos for her lines about Jim: Here he comes, Gotham! Your judge, your jailor, your most hated son. Goosebumps."
YES. THIS. One of my favourite parts of the ep.

Also, oh man, SO much great Jim and Harvey buddy content!

"The Ed mystery is starting to intrigue me."
Same. I'm hoping it's something with Strange at the core of it.

"- Ed pees standing up."
LOL why is that a bad thing?!

"That little "happy ending" with the kids and that random woman thanking Jim. Eye-roll-inducing."
It was horrible, but I'm also wondering if that was intentional - to increase the tension of on one hand, Gotham's saviour, on the other, it's most-hated son...

"Surely Babs also houses old/sick/whatever women?"
She's pretty cold. Maybe she doesn't.

"One twist I would be here for: They eat the men."
YES PLEASE.

"What's the "dark zone"? Why didn't it appear on Jim's map?"
Honestly, so dumb. It's good that this is so much fun, otherwise I'd be mad at the stupid writing :p

Also, why were the pitchfork mob who came for The Witch all apparently from 19th century England? (I'm laughing so hard).

"That said, I'll simply headcanon that the nurse simply wanted Bruce dead."
Tbf, that nurse did seem a little off-kilter...

"Not gonna lie, when Babs referred to Tabs as her "best friend on this earth", my first thought was: Is this some type of "gals being pals" revisionism?"
Same.

"Will we ever see Selina's reaction to Tabby's death?"
Does she even know she's dead though?

The thing is, if it's Strange, WHY? Who outbid Oswald when Strange revived Ed? And why didn't they attempt to use Lee in a similar way, especially considering her previous relationship with Jim? Ed and Lee would've been a perfect duo take out both Oswald and Jim. However, now that I'm thinking about it, it could also make sense that Ed was hypnotized by Jervis and programmed to act a certain way.

The peeing was not a bad thing per se. Just the certainty that Ed doesn't clean. I couldn't help but imagine that there's pee everywhere in that bathroom. (Which now makes me wonder how Jim makes all the sanitary stuff work with the refugees and who gets to clean after them.)

Re: The tension between savior and most hated son. I would really love to believe this take, but 4b repeatedly gave me the impression that the show genuinely believes Jim's hype. I don't know. Maybe they'll surprise me, but I'll expect them to prove Babs wrong in the end.

The question re: Selina was meant as "When is she going to (learn about it and) react?"

Oh, it was Penguin who got Strange to resurrect Ed and Lee... OK, I forgot/didn't realise that. OK, I'm lost. I have no idea what's going on with Ed and Lee. If Penguin wanted them, then idk why Ed is apparently on his own now. Unless Penguin literally just wanted to fuck with Ed out of vindictiveness. If he even still hates him - I can't keep up. Presumably Strange did that work just for money and cos he loves his job.

Well, fair point that Ed does look oddly dishevelled now (considering he does have a 'home' still etc) and it doesn't look like he tidies the place much.

I'm assuming plumbing/water supply etc still work normally? And people clean their own areas? They certainly still have power (I'm still annoyed at how much power that bat signal is wasting tbh).

I hope they do show Selina's reaction to the news about Tabby.

If Oswald just wanted to fuck with Ed, why would he still name his dog after him? If Oswald genuinely wanted to save Ed (which is what I assume), why aren't they together? And where the fuck is Strange anyway? Or Lee? I also wonder how Jim would feel/behave if he knew about the stabbing and what followed after. (Or maybe better strike that.)

I'm honestly feeling like... I realise that there are too many characters to have them all in every episode, but there is quite a lot of 'wait, where the heck is X right now?' going on...

I'm commenting before I read anyone else's comments.

Here goes...

OK, it was terrible, but god help me I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

Jim's ridiculous barreling ahead trying to Be The Police in a completely unsuitable environment, like he will not adapt even a little. This would strike me as more ridiculous if he didn't have Harvey two steps behind wearily telling him how dumb he's being but that he'll follow him anyway (strong Harv love vibes!)

I totally called it on the whole Temple of Doom kids plot and I was ROLLING it was so naff and derivative. But man, it was still fun despite being totally daft.

I think my favourite parts were:

Barbara. I like her a whole heap more than I used to. Where she just coldly tells Jim how much the city hates him when he comes to her for assistance, that whole monologue was BEAUTIFUL and that little shot at the end where she finishes and looks ready to break down in tears - flawless. Probably my favourite bit of the episode. Gave me proper 'Lost Boys David with the single tear rolling down his cheek' vibes.

Ed. I don't really like Ed that much, and I was finding his plot boring af in E01, but he really grew on me this ep. I think it was his weary acceptance of his amnesia and how pragmatic he was with the biker guy he imprisoned and tortured. Idk, he was just making me laugh and feel a little sympathy with him.

Harvey. My love for him is reaching critical mass I swear to god. Every line out of his mouth this episode was gold ("THAT IS AN ARROW"). I particularly loved how he shouted for Jim like a toddler shouting for his mum when he discovered the Creepy Murder Room in the basement. And his constant world-weary realism is as beautiful as his hair. I'm just, I'm just DELIGHTED by him.

Speaking of hair, Lucius's hair is getting higher and I am gleeful that 'we are trapped in a war zone and nobody is gonna be getting haircuts (except Jim Gordon)' is being acknowledged.

Ivy. Also wasn't particularly fussed on Ivy but she grew on me this ep too (lol pun). I do love a bit of a play for sympathy, followed by a 'I'M EVIL REALLY' reveal. I like how uncompromising she is. Also kinda liked how smart Bruce was with his choice of wording, that seemed to be an actually believable way to convince her to help Selina.

I mean, there was a lot that wasn't great about this ep. Still the stupid 'cut off from the mainland, government have abandoned us' plot. Rescuing the kids seemed like a pretty pointless side plot. The whole Jim Gordon 'great white saviour' thing is making me really uncomfortable but to be fair to them, I think perhaps that's intentional because he's clearly uncomfortable with it too. There's a ton of plot holes. But the main thing I disliked about this episode was that I really wanted to see more of the totally fabulous street gang, and in particular their amazingly attired leader, but they all got slaughtered immediately (and like, where did Barbara appear from, anyway?)

I'm so on board for all this, though. I'm loving it hard.

I think I would've enjoyed the Jim plot more if they had left out the Mother bit. I'd even gladly taken the save-the-kid bullshit if they had expanded on the dead zone and the ways people have, so far, survived there. Then again, they probably smashed all of that stuff into the episode because they had to leave it somewhere.

Agreed re: Babs. I really hope they don't set her up to eat her words and then have her sacrifice herself for Jim because she was wrong about him. That's about the cheapest, most awful thing they could do to her.

And yeah, Harv was another highlight of that episode. I'm really glad we have DL back full-time for this season. That said, I hope this doesn't mean that they will continue to serve us next-to-no-dialogue!Harper because I liked her dynamic with Jim in s4, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of her.

I'm still a little miffed that their Ivy introduction made absolutely no sense. And it would've been so easy to get it working, IMO, unless they somehow really needed to use Scarecrow in 4x01. Just have a group of guys steal medical supplies, have Bruce stop them and learn about "The Witch" and what she does to the men of the neighborhood. Then maybe add the nurse telling him, and woo!

Really looking forward to whatever they got in store for the future. The episode titles are super interesting, but I don't advise looking at them if you want to keep yourself spoiler-free!

Yeah. The Mother bit did feel a bit tacked on for atmospherics, but I didn't hate it, and it served up some lovely Harv moments.

I just hope they keep Babs stone cold the whole time. Agreed it would be the WORST to give her some shitty redemption arc at this point.

Mmmm. I feel Harper is probably relegated to supporting character again. I'd like to see more of her too. But not gonna lie, I'd rather have Harv.

I am remaining totally spoiler free :)